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Abridged Conversation With Mike from ClapClap.org

• Michael: so the reactions to our no age posts have been kinda interesting, huh?
• Matthew: yeah, kinda
• I wish more people would talk about how they're just kinda so-so
• Michael: yeah
• Matthew: I mean
• this whole scene thing
• this is what happens with scenes!
• so-so music gets elevated cos of a scene
• Michael: or how, you know, the fact that a lot of music critics came out of hardcore, which is an unusual thing for a music fan, is really warping perceptions
• Matthew: that's half of why I've been hostile to the notion of scenes since I was, like, 13!
• Michael: yeah
• Matthew: community is bad for art
• few people want to admit it
• Michael: it's true
• it's romantic and fun
• and maybe that draws people into art
• Matthew: the best artists don't give a fuck, they have a vision and they execute it
• Michael: but it doesn't make for better art except in very rare circumstances
• and we tend to exaggerate those cases because they're interesting
• Matthew: community is great for MEDIOCRE artists
• for mediocre people
• my big problem
• is that people are way too eager to accept mediocrity
• Michael: it's true
• "but they have a good live show"
• Matthew: fuck that
• they'd have a better show if they wrote better songs
• and that is that
• Michael: yeah
• Matthew: Maura showed me some soundscan figures this morning
• Matthew: Long Blondes sales in the US first week:
• 654 copies
• Michael: jesus
• Matthew: No Age:
• 3,857
• Michael: but the long blondes are so much more accessible!
• Matthew: yeah
• but no one gives them good reviews.
• not anymore.
• Michael: I think the same thing is happening to them as happened to art brut
• their first album had a long, long time to catch on and everyone really warmed to it over a long period
• Matthew: but I think Long Blondes improved on their second record!
• Michael: but now their second one comes out, everyone listens to it once, thinks "meh" and then never listen to it again
• because now the period to write a review has passed
• the long blondes really evolved and changed and made more mature music
• that's what you want in a band, right?
• Matthew: but I think the Long Blondes are also deeply unfashionable
• Michael: why?
• Matthew: basically, if you are stylish, you are paradoxically unfashionable
• if you have a female singer, your chances are extremely poor
• Michael: yeah, everyone assumes you have this audience of fashionable people and then harshes on you
• "oh it's OK, the hipsters will pick up on them"
• Matthew: these people, these "hipsters," they don't want someone making them feel frumpy
• and it's also
• it's a different tribe
• Fashion People
• Michael: yeah
• which is so weird
• Matthew: The Kills, they are rejected mostly because they are Fashion People
• Michael: huh
• Matthew: one of the best guitarists working right now, and it's like
• "fuck them"
• not even considered.
• tossed-off.
• but you know
• no one seems to want really good guitar players these days
• Michael: yeah
• I just want these bands to keep making music
• like the furnaces are
• Matthew: yeah
• Michael: they'll get picked up on eventually
• Matthew: The Fiery Furnaces just don't care.
• Michael: I think this is really the late 80s all over again
• Matthew: well I think it's like
• if you have a distinct persona, a distinct style of writing and performing
• you don't have much of a chance right now
• unless you've been around a long time
• because all people want now is community
• Michael: no age have so little personality!
• Matthew: and community encourages conformity, and making music that people can agree on
• nod their head to
• No Age have the signifiers of a few things that are generally considered cool
• but they have no real identity of their own
• they are a mcguffin for this other thing
• Michael: yes
• Matthew: not even The Smell
• but the notion of it
• Michael: "the 90s"
• Matthew: yeah
• Michael: the mythologized version of it
• Matthew: but not the interesting 90s!
• the most interesting thing about the 90s
• is that it's a time when we suddenly had all these super distinct, charismatic musicians who didn't quite conform to previous expectations for rock and pop stars
• Michael: yeah
• "let's see what the weirdos are doing!"
• Matthew: and experimentation and sounding different from other bands was encouraged
• Michael: yeah
• Matthew: but the really key thing
• is that you had all these people
• with a distinct cult of personality
• and it was all new
• Stephen Malkmus, Beck, Liz Phair, Eddie Vedder, Rivers Cuomo, PJ Harvey, Tori Amos, Trent Reznor, Thom Yorke, Ian Svenonius, Fugazi, so on -- they were their own archetypes
• it wasn't just people slipping into some accepted cultural role
• and if they were, it was being subverted
• this is where community is part of the problem
• Michael: they were bringing in these other things to pop
• Matthew: where it's a set of shared aesthetics, fashions, attitudes
• you can't be bold, it's discouraged.
• Michael: and it's almost never a creative thing
• Matthew: we need leaders.
• Michael: it's never a bunch of new aesthetics and fashions and attitudes
• Matthew: mavericks.
• Michael: there's very little invention
• Matthew: it's discouraged.
• look at what happened to the Furnaces
• no band like them in the world!
• Michael: yeah
• Matthew: fully formed aesthetic from day one
• Michael: when I talked with Matthew Friedberger one of the things he stressed was that he's constantly focused on getting another album out
• Matthew: a constant push towards doing new things
• Michael: whatever it takes, you make another album
• Matthew: that's a good way of working.
• Michael: and you don't sense that drive from other people
• Matthew: that's the James Rabbit thing too
• Michael: yeah! you don't need approval from a community when you believe in what you're doing
• Matthew: they don't care about anything but making more art and doing their own thing. they don't even care much about the outside world. you build a community around yourself, that's cool
• Michael: yeah, I like that Tyler's done that
• but he's clearly built this very inclusive, supportive community
• Michael: that's nevertheless very useful for allowing him to make his music
• Matthew: the thing I hate is that all of this community-centric thing rejects geniuses because it makes other people feel bad
• Michael: yeah, that's what I've been trying to say in my comments other places
• the best art comes from people who were able to reject community standards
• Matthew: we need to move away from everyone having to feel included
• not everyone is special, not everyone is talented, not everyone is a genius
• Michael: yeah
• it's been an unfortunate thing to learn
• but not everyone gets an equal say in art
• that's why I hate trying to apply morality to it
• Matthew: right.
• Michael: I remember my dad telling me that at one point
• that you have to choose whether to be a good person or a good artist
• and it's a shitty thing to think
• Matthew: the R Kelly rule
• Michael: but, you know, art is a broad thing
• it's for lots of people, not just ones who have direct contact with the artist
• for music fans, there seems to be a reluctance to accept that